[kpop] who’s gay in kpop?! hilarious summary of 6theory thread & Michelle’s thoughts

I like working the night shift at the library because it’s quiet, but the thing is, I always do my homework beforehand, because I know I am terrible at concentrating at night. So oftentimes, I’m bored, and that one day–yes, that day was April 7th–I stumbled across a huge thread on 6theory, the companion forum to Allkpop. This thread was dedicated to surmising who may or may not be gay in the kpop industry, and it had me laughing in tears. Fangirl logic really is the best.

I will list the people most named by the forum members, and what people have said about them: various well-said logics and/or so-funny-I-could-die comments, peppered in with some of my own comments in grey italics. At the very, very end, I will tell you what I think in general. As for specifics on Key of SHINee, read the previous post.

warnings: (1) Unless the grammar / spelling was egregious, I preserved the original form of the comments. (2) This post is rather image-heavy, so be patient while the page is loading if you have a slow computer/connection.

Overall, the most popular ‘possible’ homosexuals were YunJae (Yunho, Jaejoong), JongKey (Jonghyun, Key), JoKwon, and Heechul.

First things first. I don’t believe homosexuality is a lifestyle choice; it’s something that is encoded in your genome. You don’t just wake up one day, after living with five guys in a dorm for five years, and develop general feelings for men. I also believe in the Kinsey scale; no one is completely homosexual or straight– everyone is bicurious to a degree. The statistic that one in ten people are gay is completely bogus– that’s counting people who have had homosexual once-in-a-lifetime encounters. It’s closer to 1 in 100, or even less. I don’t think one or two experiences with the same-sex automatically signs you up batting for one team only.

I also don’t believe in gaydar. There have been studies that show that homosexuals have better visual perception (i.e. they can theoretically spot fellow homosexuals better than heterosexuals), but to that, I’m a little skeptical. The most recent study on had 42 people, and so I’m sure that the control for age was not sufficient. Homosexuals have to have sharper perception skills in the first place because there are comparatively less homosexuals in the population– less possible mates. Spotting possible partners could be a skill that matures and gets better with practice and time– ‘gaydar’ may not be as innate as some people claim. So, when trolling around online forums and seeing people claim they have gaydar, and yes, they are, in fact, gay as well, be skeptical, however confident they seem.

So then, what do I think about these speculations? There are four things that everyone should keep in mind:

(1) ubiquitous homosexual shipping in fandoms: Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, things that Caucasian people traditionally like, have rabid slash shippers. Fandom shipping exists everywhere. So shipping in arena where there are pretty boys and girls galore isn’t exactly the most surprising thing to happen, whether there’s ‘evidence’ or not (cough Harry/Draco). I watched a few YunJae videos, and for more than 80% of the videos, I wasn’t very impressed; it just looks like the status quo of the kpop world. The lesson is that a lot of people tend to exaggerate about the moments so-and-so idol have, so be careful when reading fan accounts and opinions.

(2) fan service / idol life:  entertainment companies aren’t stupid. They know their demographic are young girls who swoon at Hanchul (Hangeng & Heechul) skinship, too much bromance, and a lot of sweet manliness (yes, I have fallen into the Lee Minho boat too). So they’ve built up this ridiculous sort of fan service where idols are regularly asked who their ideal types are, etc., etc., and so much attention is placed on their sexuality. Five to thirteen males living in one dorm together, eating, sleeping, dancing together? All sorts of questionable situations will inevitably bring themselves up, whether the group members are homosexual or not.

(3) Asian v. Western perception: a vast majority of the comments written are from a Western perspective. I don’t want to sound snobby and say that, “Well, I’m Asian..” but that’s the only card I can really play here. I’m Asian, and as you become inundated in the culture, you find that it’s socially acceptable and even encouraged for an Asian man to embody what Westerners consider “feminine” traits, especially young men and boys. I really don’t become fazed by what people consider to be proof of ‘Yunjae love’.

(4) social climate: this seems like in total contradiction to what I typed earlier, but through cultural socialization, people who are homosexuals can turn out to be quite ‘straight’ because they’re brought up in an environment that doesn’t consider homosexuality as a valid way of life. Certainly, in South Korea, this is still the case, even in America. Humans are made up of a mix of nurture and nature, and for some people, nurture can prove far stronger than nature. However, I must emphasize that this is only my personal opinion. Comprehensive scientific studies on homosexuality have been few and far between, so it’s little more than speculation at this point.

In the end, I advise everyone to take these homosexuality rumors with a grain of salt. Granted, statistically, one or two of them will turn out to be gay, but it’s not always those you expect (like former New Jersey governor James McGreevey! I’m pretty sure no one’s gaydar was going off for him, initially). Also, I’m a bit skeptical in labelling people’s sexuality; sexuality is a fluid thing.

Make your own judgments, because I won’t be making any.

——

Listen to the audio companion, if you’re interested; basically reiterating what I’ve said before, in more or less detail.

You can watch the video where Jaejoong apparently wants to bang the interviewer lady here.

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70 thoughts on “[kpop] who’s gay in kpop?! hilarious summary of 6theory thread & Michelle’s thoughts

  1. very detailed. i loved your explanation for the “gaydar” thing- makes me think of the concept of “survival of the fittest” for some reason. skimmed the linked dutch experiment and it seems kinda shifty to me though. (really? looking at shapes?)
    and yesyesyesyes the east vs west thing is so asjkdflkajsl.

    do you have a link to the taemin outside-girl-phonebook interview?
    also your link to the key post is broken.

    • I was thinking about it, and they should have a study where they ask a bunch of 10 year olds to ID gays/straights and then 10-15 years down the road, contact them again to record their sexual preferences.. then it would be a better measure of the inherent gaydar ability, but of course, I’m sure that even then, sexual repression would still exist and people wouldn’t be entirely truthful about their orientation :’(

      okay, fixed the link.

      about the interview, I’ll keep an eye out for it, they only got cell phones after Juliette, I believe, so it has to be around that era (haha that era I was not too interested in them and was disappointed I got the Jonghyun version of Juliette’s CD/booklet! trololol)

      Michelle

  2. Oh my gosh, you are my idol for writing this post. So so so detailed and I love how you’ve put everything into consideration. I agree with everything you’ve said, especially that no one is only gay or straight and that the one in ten theory has very little validity (otherwise, I’ve just been unlucky…) Anyway, I’ve skimmed that thread on 6theory myself… funny stuff there.

    I’ve been looking forward to this post for awhile and it’s everything I wanted to be and more. I can always expect high-quality material from you and this was no exception. Thank you for writing this! Now to read your post on Key…

    • :D you do me too much credit ><"" I felt that this post was rather anticlimactic because I am naturally uncomfortable with labelling people's orientations, especially if I don't know them in person.. it's nice to know that you agree with the Kinsey scale.. most people look at me like I'm nuts! I tell them you just haven't seen the right person of your sex~~ (then they give me dirty looks.. -___-")

      ♡Michelle

      • I’m definitely going to have to use that one in the future. By the way, I just looked over this post again and I AM SO JEALOUS OF YOUR 2400… you are such a mega-genius, please remember me when you’re making big bucks on Wall Street. >_<

        • lulz, by the time I become an i-banker, I hope I still blog on here :D I did write a post awhile back on How To Get a 2400 if you haven’t seen it. Usually when we play those annoying “2 truths and 1 lie”, I say, “I play the piano, I play the violin, I got a 2400 on my SATs.” Nobody ever picks the last choice XD

          • Please do! I’ll miss your intellectual take on K-Pop related events. I bookmarked that post, the thing is that I got a 2080 but I just can’t do well on the math section (I got a 590. :() I’ve tried taking practice tests but I feel like my head will explode once I reach the more difficult questions… oh well, I’m not aiming for an amazingly prestigious private school (cough like someone here attends cough), just a Public Ivy. I’m going into junior year so hopefully it’ll improve… anyway, that game always reminds me of Memoirs of a Geisha, because it was featured in the novel.

            I’ll stop distracting you with my random comments that don’t even relate to your post now, good luck getting those typos! (:

  3. Great post. I’ve stumbled here through searching about the girl group “4minute” who I’ve recently discovered & think are brilliant, and was curious if they had much of a gay fan base.

    You’re right about the fangirldom, some of those ladies (and guys) are ker-razy! haha I’m going to have a look around your other posts now, keep up the good work :)

    • there is DEFINITELY a huge gay fanbase for kpop in general. But most of the open community is overseas; in Korea, as you read in “general Asian gayness”, it’s really very hard for homosexuals in Korea to express themselves without governmental troubles and familial ilks ~

      well, I hope you find things to your liking ! though I’m afraid I haven’t written too much on the gay community or 4minute here.. I’m too big of a SHINee stan -___-
      thanks for reading & commenting ^^;
      Michelle

      • Yeah, so I see. I did have a quick look on Wikipedia about Korean gay rights and while it’s behind other countries it does at least appear to be moving in the right direction.

        With the world becoming a metaphorically smaller place it’ll become harder and harder for gay rights to be denied, which is a good thing.

        Well even though I am gay, I do have interests outside the community so I’m sure I’ll find something of interest ;)

  4. Pingback: [persona] “But I don’t think of you.” Howard Roark. « the innocent lam

  5. You’re amazing.
    There are not enough K-Pop fangirls with views like this XD The thing is, even though South Korea IS South Korea, with all the people in the industry, there’s got to be at least one who’s questioning.
    ——
    Oh, by the way, your description of Heechul was win.

    • aw thank you ^^; yeah, it’s all right to have your own views on things, but it’s sort of pointless to keep obsessing over it T___T

      CX I’m sort of nervous for SM’s production of “Hana Kimi”.. as much as I love SHINee.. I hope to god Minho doesn’t get picked to play Sano
      thanks for commenting!! and reading!!
      ^^Michelle

    • since they’re relatively new and don’t have as comparable a fan base as others, I didn’t see much except for blanket statements like, “They’re all gay”.. like those comments on U-Kiss -___-”

      Michelle

  6. “http://theinnocentlam.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/gay131.png” (Minho)

    This was by a 100% Asian (half Korean in fact :3), 22-year old Shawol whose bias is also Jonghyun.

    Nice to meet you :)

  7. Oh lordy… did you study in Singapore? Are you from a certain school which had a college counsellor with initials KS?

  8. Pingback: [kpop/musings] how to comment respectfully. « the innocent lam

  9. Hmm…I disagree with trying to label someone’s sexuality by whether they’re gender expressions (masculine/feminine), how they act (a person can’t sound gay or look gay), etc when sued when discussing specific people. I wear heels and dresses all the time and am lesbian; don’t need/want/should wear the stereotypical plaid and have short, short hair.

    I do agree you can’t put anyone in front of a queer person and have them be able to label any person’s sexuality in the world, but there are times when it comes across really strongly. I pay a lot of attention to Super Junior and for me: Heechul is bi while Kyuhyun is queer (I know he’s not straight, but can’t put a direct label of bi, gay, or anything else). Ryeowook is straight. Sungmin leaves me with a question mark and can’t label him anything. Siwon bi-curious.

    Sure, one could argue I’m a white westerner, but I’ve spent my fair share in the queer Korean scene in Seoul talking in Korean with LGB Koreans. Stereotypes never fit whether it be in Korea or the USA when it comes to sexuality. And contrary to what people preach or say, Korea has a lot of LGB/queer people despite that it heavily tries to oppress or make it out that it’s bad to be gay.

    • I apologize for the length of time it has taken me to get back to you ><;;; I got finished with college finals and then got shipped off to China (land of spotty internet) for more school.

      lol. I haven't heard the plaid lesbian stereotype before. I go to an all-girls' college.

      ahhhhh REALLY YOU BELIEVE KYUHYUN IS QUEER? awww awwww I just have a personal affection for that kid. I think you if you said Kyuhyun is a frog I would have the same reaction (awwwwww awwww how cute!).

      Thank you for your perspective! (: I really appeciate it when people aren't so dogmatic about who is what in the industry ;~;
      Michelle

    • ah, I didn’t see a lot of mentions of 2PM. I guess their manly image gets across very well. However, I wouldn’t put it past some of them to be homosexuals. It can be surprising.

      thanks for stopping by,
      Michelle

  10. Awesome explanation. Aside from the writer, people who have made their comments have also shown strong gaydar ability.

    For 2PM members, I have suspected Taecyeon of being gay. It was when I saw his video together with Woo Young, Lee Hong Ki and other artists which I don’t know their names. Hong Ki was one of the MCs and they were sort of congratulating the female artist first and then the two 2PM members. While the other MC was talking (man around 30+), I saw Taecyeon and Hong Ki stared at each other and then Taecyeon made a peace sign. There are also some videos where he hugs another 2PM member. I know people there’s nothing wrong with hug but if this happens in the other country like mine, this will be tagged as gay. Men don’t hug like that as if they want to feel each other. Next, it was on 2PM and 2AM speak English. Ok no doubt about Jo Kwon being gay, but I saw Taecyeon looking at the Seulong (a 2AM member) with lust. For Nickhun, I can’t exactly say if he’s gay but the way his hand gesture goes made me think he could also possibly be. I didn’t focus much with the other members. I also think Hong Ki is gay because of that incident with Taecyeon plus his naughty interaction with a SHINee member.

    • thank you~! though I wouldn’t say I have any gaydar ability at all.
      interesting.. I’m not quite sure I would say those looks or actions are lustful or gay, because they’re rather isolated and not repeated instances. It’s like waking up in the morning and not quite being yourself.. perhaps they were simply having weird/bad/funny days.

      Michelle

  11. I never wondered if Kyuhyun could be gay. I just never got the feeling like he could be. Heechul, on the other hand, is just too fabulous to NOT be gay (Key too). I also wonder about Sungmin and Ryeowook and even Siwon, but they’re just fleeting thoughts; I don’t really waste time dwelling on them.
    I liked your thoughts on people not being entirely gay or straight. It might very well be true. More people should embrace this idea instead of trying to stick people into either orientation. (I think this statement makes me sound a bit hypocritical because of my previous words about SuJu.)
    P.S. I’m a little jealous of your 2400 SAT score. The highest I got was a 1700, but that’s pretty good so I geuss I shouldn’t complain.

    • :) that is! better than the national average. a 2400 isn’t everything.. it didn’t clear the gates for me to Harvard, Yale, or Princeton.. so no one feel stressed about it~

      yeah, especially in South Korea, and the level of affection they encourage between men, I don’t think kissing a few men makes a man gay.. even in Heechul’s case.. some people just really like the physical act of kissing and when you’re as flamboyant as Heechul, that can also be misconstrued into an assumption he is gay.

      ^^~ thanks for stopping by
      Michelle

  12. “key’s freaking hot. no way he’s gay”
    LMAO. WOW.

    Really fantastic post! I enjoyed reading this, and I agree with almost everything you said. I especially liked what you said about GD. And I also believe that everyone fits somewhere on a “scale” with hetero on one end and homo on the other. :] I know you said previously that you haven’t seen much about Teen Top or Infinite (lol’d at the “They’re all gay” in U-Kiss xD), but it’s a been a while since you posted that comment, so have you seen anything as of late? Or do have any personal opinions about them? Jw. ^^

    • hey there :) I know you left a few comments on my posts, and I am slowly but surely getting around to them!

      hahaha, when I read that, I LOLOL’ing all over the floor. ROFL I believe is the term.. anyways, about Infinite, Teen Top, U-Kiss, I still haven’t seen much of them ><" so I really can't say. Though I did look at the Infinite's Sungjong (? am I spelling it right), because apparently he is very feminine and displays 'uke' qualities.. I didn't find that to be the case, Kevin Woo will always be my OTU (one true uke)… if they release well-produced music someday, maybe you'll see me writing huge posts thinking about their sexuality XD it's inevitable once you get into the Shawol/Cassie/whatever fandom to wonder about their sexualities.

      thank you for stopping by ^^~~
      Michelle

      • Haha, take your time. ^^” I know I just sort of randomly popped in. I’m glad to have discovered your blog, though!

        Ahh, that’s okay. I pretty much only ever really thought of Sungjong and Kevin as being possibly gay, too. Lol, I read your post about Kevin being your OTU and I totally agree. He’s such a sweet, soft-spoken uke it’s not even funny. One of the reasons he’s my U-Kiss bias~ <3 So you don't like Infinite's, Teen Top's, or U-Kiss's music? xD

        • ^^~~ I’m glad you feel that way.. ahh I would love to meet him in person *_* because who knows, maybe he gives a totally different vibe in real life, and the computer screen is giving me the wrong vibes …

          no, I don’t really like any of their music. For now. I find them to be like missA for the most part, catchy, but it’s not something I’d download and listen to again and again.

          Michelle

          • I have a feeling he would be the same in real life. xD Even in fancams of him just walking around, he totally screams uke.

            I do love a lot of those three groups’ music, but Miss A’s songs don’t really do much for me, so I understand.

  13. This was a great article, and thoroughly enjoyable. You raise a lot of good points, and I agreed with you on most everything (save the argument against Minho–that guy is definitely having fun experimenting with whomever he wants, regardless of gender… and let’s face it, he’s one of the hottest idols out there, so he can do whatever he pleases, indeed; and I do very much believe that Key has some legitimate homosexual tendencies also). This subject is so complex and looking in as a non-Korean makes it 1,000 times harder to have any clarity. I think it’s fascinating that they ambiguous sexuality of male idols is so sexy to females (including me). I can’t explain this phenomenon. It would make sense that the companies are tapping into this, if they’re truly aware of it (are they? do the idols do this for fanservice, truly, and to what degree? I wouldn’t be surprised, since yaoi is so big in modern Japanese culture…?). Anyway, I think it’s great that we can picture some of these idols as being gay, because this is the 21st century and it’s about time that gay people are allowed in the normal ranks of celebrity worship, right? Even if it’s not “outed” over there, the fact that some people internationally question–and ACCEPT regardless–is a great thing, I believe. I wish I could understand how Koreans view this conduct, but I’ll never really know, because I am influenced by my own culture, sadly. I just love that there are cultures out there who can celebrate androgynous beauty without affixing sexual-bias immediately. So, as constricting as it may be for the idols who are legitimately gay (because it’s inevitable that there are), I also think it’s really liberating that the standards are so blurred (as opposed to mainstream western culture where there are two very dramatic poles of thought for classification/judgement).

  14. well, when someone ask me if they’re gays, a just have a NO to awnser, but, i don’t think all the boybands are gay or something, they just have a different culture for a close friendship, there, they can use female pans that is normal, for guys to use it for example. But Key from SHINee, almost sure he is gay, he screams like a girl a LOT, A LOT! and sometimes he acts like one…he is so diva haha i love him xD anf from couples I think YunJae is real, but just them, i don’t think Jae like man, for me is just Yunho for him, and for Yunho the same, if it is to be a guy, so it needs to be Jae. and fanservice exist, so a lot of them enjoy doing it(like SuJu), TaeMin (Shinee) alredy said, that in the beggining it was weird for him… but this doesn’t say that they are gay or have homossexuality tndences, i see all like a close friendship, i think for them they are like family, u know? most of them live together so their friendship is close enough to make what they do, but a lot of them hate do fanservice…

    • ah, yes, I think a lot people tend to mistake a close family relationship with that of a romantic relationship. Sometimes they look the same.. once you love each other romantically a long time, it gets to be very familiar instead of “makeout session” all the time! (:

      thanks for stopping by, and I’m sorry I took so long to respond,
      Michelle

  15. wow i dont care about boygroups but seeing your post O_O hm. now i learned more about the tendency of their sexuality. just like others , i dont have to be a fan but i definitely had the word
    ” gay” in my heard whenever i see Key , Kevin (ukiss), and Heechul kissing members ,etc..
    tbh im surprised taeyeon made the list haha i think she’s the very least bi too (cuz im a fan) but i thought it takes a real SONE to know the real her b/c the image she portrays on camera is very different. i thought a regular kpop fan wouldn’t suspect her at any chance b/c yea like i said , just like jonghyun . ( i didn’t expect him to be the one who initiates in jongkey) taeyeon also has a rumour of her going out with a girl pre-debut and hard-core ksones know about it too. some of them even joked about taeyeon’s sexuality (and korean people are known to not really say those homosexuality jokes) but they did.
    after 2 years and a half in the kpop world i think i can see when it’s fan service and when it is not. b/c if you take the fan services seriously , i doubt if any of them is straight O_O
    SM is the master when it comes to fan service though ; sj master it best by far by kissing membs in the mouth but i think that just shows more that they are probably not dating each other bts..
    i don’t know about yunjae but it seems like they are similar to TaeNy ; with subtle looks, actions and not blatant obvious fan services.
    for ex. , yulsic is/was the most popular pairing around and i used to ship them before too ; no doubt because jessica is the fan-service queen in snsd lol. b/c of that if you search yulsic up,they appear much gayer than taeny but that again pretty much say it.
    on the other hand, im somewhat glad taemin is asexual? or have a possibility to be a player b/c he’s the only kpop male artist that i like ;although he appears feminine (or is that his image?)

    p.s. i have a question to you though , do you think jessica is bi or lesbian? b/c as a fan i know not only she is a fan service queen but she is an unnie whore just like minho. she also look suspicious if you watch her in “chuseok special sweet girl” and her interactions with other girls. especially her interactions with Hara, just youtube it . (i also think Hara is not dating junhyun from beast but..who knows)
    plus in my head i always think about how can a pretty/popular girl like jessica treat other pretty girls so nicely and like with the unnies?it’s strange to me b/c i’ve never seen a straight girl behaving like jessica so.
    as a snsd’s fan i know that taeyeon does not like to do fan-service; yoona and sunny i don’t think anyone can guess if they hate it or not; the rest seem to enjoy fan service just like sj eh . but you know what just like sj people question 9 girls being in the dorm and stuff blah blah blah like they say about sj *shrugs*

    p.p.s like i agreed on taeyeon is bi or lesbian , i don’t really believe in the idea of a member dating another member. i mean , it’s going to be awkward to have your ex around 24/7 . i do believe that some gay/lesbian celebrities date underground though, despite korea being not very fond of homosexuality. it’s like im a locksmith but deep down i know they are not dating (taeyeon might have or had a crush on tiffany ) but it’s more like may be later she will date a girl (celebrity or not)

    • LOL IT IS AWKS TO HAVE YOUR EX AROUND!

      in response to your question about Jessica, I really don’t know. I don’t watch SNSD much.. I only see them when they appear with boy groups like SHINee ><;; but she strikes me as very closed off person, to both men and women T_T

      I think it is only Taemin's image to be feminine. I think he's actually quite the manly man! He probably gets the most ladies nowadays, heheh. He's the most popular member in Japan, and I think he is the most popular member in Korea now. It's quite frightening. He is definitely the most popular in the West.

      thanks for stopping by ^^~, and I'm sorry I took so long to respond,
      Michelle

  16. Wow you really do have a point. Obviously I am not Asian but once you pointed it out I began to feel the same way. It initially was very shocking to seeing guys fondeling each other. Though I am not a die hard Kpop fan I thought it was sweet to see them doing that. I guess that’s something that will take some getting used to. It was helpful seeing somone elses opinion on the “gay” actions of Kpop boy bands. Honestly I strongly believe that more than half of the idols that do that actually dont really mean it.

    • thank you for sharing your own perspective! It is really odd but when you start seeing it all over the place in kpop, it’s kind of hard to think that they are all gay ><""

      thanks for stopping by!
      Michelle

  17. I agree with quite a lot of what you’ve stated. A while ago, i went through a couple of those threads on 6theory and offered my own opinion, but I think the thread was deleted. (?)

    It’s kind of upsetting, because when you start thinking about things like this (aspects of the private lives of celebrities), you realize that you know absolutely nothing about your beloved idols. (Insert my heavy sigh here.)

    Anyways, I watched a clip in which Daesung, Seungri, Sooyoung, and Hyoyeon (but mostly Dae and Soo) were discussing Taeyang’s attendance at SNSD’s concert. Daesung said that when Taeyang came back, he said that the concert was really good…but that he only talked about the LED lights! And the way Daesung imitated Taeyang, it seemed that Taeyang had a regretful/wistful tone. Yet, again, we can only guess so much. It’s scary how intense we can be when it comes to thinking we know our idols. This industry is…so successful in that aspect.

    The other things I wanted to mention: sexuality and personality. Some people are just more comfortable with sexuality. Not necessarily hetero/homo/etc-type sexuality, but just being…sexual. We are a sexual species. Sometimes, things that may be interpreted as “homo” or “hetero” is just “sexual”. I hope I am making some semblance of sense (<- I typed "sex" at first, lol). At least, that's how I make sense of people who are not attracted to others of the same sex, but still will do sexual things with them. It kind of ties into the Kinsey scale, which makes a lot of sense to me as well. (I also generally agree with you that it is biological – but only based on my own experience. I've known I've been attracted to the same sex since my first crush at the age of 5, yet I do not want to say it really is all biological. More on this soon.)

    Our varying degrees of comfort with sexuality leads me to say that people in general, are so complex and different in our thought processes. I interpret something one way because that's the only way I know how to interpret it – from my own point of view. I think about how I would act or respond and form an opinion about someone else. That's why I cannot say homosexuality is biological because it is so personal. Again, the Kinsey scale – we judge ourselves, and our understanding of what anything is heavily based on personal experience. Gah. It's so tangly in my mind. Also, I have a little bit of an issue with "labelling," though I think labelling is a strong word for what I'm trying to say. I have only liked people of the same sex, but if I ever fall in love with someone of the opposite sex, then I would be completely open to that relationship. How do you describe that? I don't know. I would just like to call myself "open-minded." Yet, the voice in my head is scoffing, knowing that such a situation would not occur. So, am I being open-minded for the sake of hiding from a strict label? I don't think I am, but…yeah ._. I just made this into a personal story. Apologies. All I wanted to say that it's hard to know what other people are thinking. A close friend of mine did not guess that I am not attracted to the opposite sex, but her boyfriend did. Shrugz.

    Anyways, yay for open discussions and opening minds. The more talk about it, the more understanding of how little we understand occurs. Which is a good thing, I believe.

    Thanks for sharing :)

    *ps: " Homosexuals have to have sharper perception skills in the first place because there are comparatively less homosexuals in the population– less possible mates."
    *fewer and *fewer
    - from one asian with a 2400 to another, lol

    **pps: i apologize if anything i've stated is something you have already addressed or discussed in previous comments. i haven't read through all of them (yet)!

    • why hello there! thank you for your thoughts. even if it’s more personal, it’s still good ^^ I agree, it’s a good thing to have all-inclusive, no-hurt discussions about this. I think sometimes why some (not all) bigots hold onto their beliefs is because maybe when they are challenged, they are done so in a hostile way, in a way that makes them cling to their beliefs even more..

      yes, I think the thread was deleted, because some people told me they had trouble finding it. It’s a pity, sort of, since there was a lot of good discussion going on in there amidst some of the obvious fangirl trolling. and Michelle-bashing T___T I really hated it when they discovered I compiled some stuff from it, like “omg she took stuff outta context”.. the idea of a summary is not to repost the entire thread .__.

      yup. Humans as sexual. Agree. Sort of.. I’m more of the opinion that humans like what feels good.. and though I am not in a position to say so definitively, I think intimate relations (emotional/physical) with either a male or female can feel as good as the other, provided they are with the correct person. It’s just that societal constraints socialize people into having disgust for certain types of relationships. So in that sense, I’m like you, rather open-minded.. but still more attracted to one sex.

      I will make the change! thanks.
      see you around,
      Michelle

  18. What do you thinks about Jang Keun suk ? i beleive he is so so so so gay being a gay myself but would like to know your opinions

    • “Mary Stayed Out All Night”, right? hmm.. I think he rather looks it.. he seems to be on the fence for me, I think he’d enjoy dating both sexes XD bisexual?

      thanks for stopping by!
      Michelle

  19. This is why I am so opposed to kpop. They are too influential in today’s world. They are too homosexual, and homosexualism should be obliterated! I can’t believe the youngsters today are so accepting of trash like this! I’m 15 so I know the current situation for teens. Many beside me, my friends have fallen. In the end, Fuck Kpop, I say, that moral less piece of Jew funded liberal propaganda! 88!

    • I like the color black. There’s absolutely nothing you can do about it. There’s really absolutely nothing I can do about your hateful thoughts, but rest assured, you cannot prevent millions of men and women from fucking around with the same sex, either. Just give it up. Life is easy behind a trolly computer screen.

      Michelle

  20. woah.. I honestly have to say i agree with a lot of things you’ve mentioned so far. for example, seeing Taemin as a bit of a player. I really have always thought he interacts with women(and men) easily and he really seems to flirt with a lot of them in my eyes.
    on the suspects of key being gay i really would like to add: I really think key’s acting like a diva is mainly his image. I think the company thought he should just act like that. Also, in some kind of show or interview(not sure) all the SHINee members said key is very different from Kibum(although I’m having the feeling that lately he has been showing more of himself). but people always saying key is an uke and girly and like a girl annoy me so bad. He can be gay, but he’s a dude for god sakes.
    Also, I really would support all of them no matter if they’re gay or not. I dont really want to make any speculations if they’re gay or not, I just leave that to them. However, it would be pretty amazing if a kpop idol would confess being gay/bi. I would honestly admire that person for being so brave to say that. I hope that in the future, Korea will become more acceptable of gays, so they are able to express themselves freely.

    • thanks for stopping by (: I’m glad there are fans like you. I so agree. With fans saying he is uke, he gives a rather dominant feeling to me. I don’t think Key would ever want to be on the receiving end.

      yup. I feel like Taemin gets spoiled a lot so he is a bit of player because of that. He uses his youthfulness to cozy up to noonas!

      Michelle

  21. ^^ Hi, I CAN’T BELIEVE I JUST READ THIS ON 2012 O.O But I just wanted to comment that the vid you linked was I think the last interview they had before the lawsuit…. So much tension, so I guess YooChun and JaeJoong staring that way isn’t because of the girl’s hotness but because they were mulling things over in their heads and were emotionally stressed

    • really?! haha, well, I wasn’t the one who said that they really liked the interviewer =_= it was a bunch of other people on a forum. sad..

      thanks for stopping by :D
      Michelle

  22. Pingback: an answer to Korean Shawol, and why yes, you are anonymous, but I’ll call you out anyway. | the innocent lam

  23. Why no 2pm? I think relationship between Chansung and Junho is more than just a bromance. Despite their manly exterior, both of them sometimes look at each other in a very very cute and emotional way.They have their very intimate moments. just Youtube Chanho if you don’t believe me. :D

    • ah, thanks for suggesting that. I didn’t see much discussion of Chanho, and I’m not a huge 2PM fan myself!

      lollercoasters, bromance everywhere ~_~
      Michelle

  24. I think we may be coming up against a cultural misunderstanding in a lot of these attitudes. Koreans touch a lot. Grown men who were friends walked around holding hands until Western influences made that seem like a bad thing. They sleep in piles (though the idols who don’t live in traditional Korean houses use beds). There are a lot of things that are just cultural that people attribute to sexuality.

    Then there’s the whole sexuality thing itself. Keep in mind that there is really little historical or religious homophobia in Asia. They don’t have Bibles saying it’s wrong. Korea may be among the most homophobic, but even that is largely because Confucius never gave gay people a place in his pattern of society. Parents may be more worried about what being gay would do to their childrens’ lives than the gayness itself.

    I’m reminded of a story about a teacher from the US who talked about having a conversation with a high schhol student in Japan while his friend rubbed his chest under his shirt. The boys acted like this was nothing unusual. I think it’s because of how Asians view their bodies more as tools than as their “selves”. That also accounts for their seeming easy bisexual attitudes. You love the person, not so much the body.

    I could go on and I may not be clear, but my point is that we tend to project beyond an act to the sexuality that it may lead to. Asians see just the act, like sleeping in a bed together, and don’t think beyond that to its possible implications. Something is not dirty or wrong until a bad act has actually been committed. Hugging and kissing don’t necessarily mean sex (we hug and kiss babies and our grandmothers, don’t we?). I think it’s time we attach less meaning to hugs and kisses and assume they mean what they appear to mean – closeness and affection, but no more.

    • thank you for leaving such a detailed comment. I agree that perhaps we don’t understand how close members of the same sex can be in Korea.

      Yes, I feel that way too– being gay in Asia is not problematic in the fact that you’re shagging the same sex, but rather, how you’re perceived by the public at large..

      babies are so cute,
      Michelle

  25. I’m very very surprised EunHae (Super Junior) wasn’t mentioned in this post! I mean, they got MARRIED, for goodness sake. Obv not for real, but http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/5512/256645282.jpg happened during one of the Super Shows. Like other K-Idols, they’re very touchy, but even go to the extremes of stripping each other (http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BIlCOB3CIAMkOI4.jpg:large) and back-hugging while half-naked (http://24.media.tumblr.com/ab279bcac16ab181c5bd677a90b3fb92/tumblr_mrfoyxlt961qkq34eo1_1280.jpg) Donghae is very clingy towards Eunhyuk, and supremely touchy. Skinship? Fanservice? Perhaps. But they do share numerous subtle glances between one another, and point out EunHae shippers and their banners and photoshopped images. (http://intankyung.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/eunhaess3nanjing6.jpg and http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/24200000/Eunhae-eunhae-24214438-500-440.png and http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-OUw7fvE_Bp4/Tx0txFM6EpI/AAAAAAAAGb8/2TR9I5mII_w/s400/401032_10150487485781927_270684706926_9328407_1680173818_n.jpg)

  26. hi michelle..im new in kpop..so this guy no min woo icon has nickname hika..i googled hika and found the meaning is a daughter..?why would he choose that nickname,its ok with the rest..but hika..ok i dont know so i pretend he might not know the meaning yet..sigh.,he should be careful in choosing nickname..and he has already have his hika..maggie..his foster child..he is a kind hearted person..just confuse with the nickname choosing..and probably nobody ask this b4..what do u think?thanks michelle..

  27. and michelle your article speak out my mind and the line 15 boys living in the dorm and i was thinking about how theyre gonna control their hormones and etc..but i believe that many will survive while the rest….a i dont want to get so frank so reader can decide whats that.

  28. hi,
    this may come as bit late, but i always found it little confusing that on one hand gay culture/orientation is not accepted in Korea yet i have seen deliberate fan servicing to encourage the thoughts on that line, n fans actually cherishing those services..its more like duality of psyche………

  29. . hey, good job on the research and all, it was really detailed! but just to clarify, people who are gay are not BORN that way; scientists found no gay gene, and think, if there are people who were gay before but became het, or het people that divorced their families and became gay, doesn’t it mean that it’s something that you choose, or at least, not something inherited from birth? in a way it’s a lifestyle choice, but you’re right, the experiences and the community around the person heavily influences the person’s probability on being gay.(e.g., 80% of gays who come to seek help from psychiatrists identify with a poor relationship with the parent of the same-sex, and poor relationships with friends/was ostracized) also, there are people who identify with being gay, but through help from councillors, parents, and through their sheer will and hard work, they turned straight. They CAN change; it’s an awful misconception to say that it’s something fixed from birth because that’s basically condemning the person that he/she can never change even if they wanted to, and they’ll forever be homo, and that’s really sad. For example, confused girls who see a lot of hot/talented girls/idols on the net, will probably be in admiration, so it’s kind of natural to have that kind of attraction. but if people drill the mentality that “you are attracted to a girl, you are lesbian, you will always be lesbian” and even if their attraction is not of the sexual kind, teens are very impressionable and if you are already very confused it’s hard to tell apart admiration and soon-to-be sexual attraction.

    anyway my take on homosexuality in general, is that YES, you can turn straight, but it requires your own willpower. it’s the same as an addiction, and it’s up to you to make the decision yourself. sometimes people say they TRIED to turn straight but failed, it’s because in their heart, they still feel a longing for their homosexual lifestyle still, and tell me, if you still want it so bad how are you going to stop getting addicted if you yourself don’t want it, or don’t want it ENOUGH. it’s like how i have an addiction to a certain brown haired boy that’s a horrible person to me in general and i want to stop stalking him because i KNOW he’s bad for me, but yet i want to cling on to my obsession because i JUST WANT TO, I DON’T WANT TO LET GO. and that’s when i realise, it’s not that “i want to stop stalking him because i KNOW he’s bad for me”, but more like “i know i need to stop stalking him because i KNOW he’s bad for me” (but i don’t want to stop. it’s like drugs, see. every action he does sends me into ecstasy, but every time i’m separated from him i feel empty and awful and every hurtful word he says eats me up inside and leaves me even more hollow and empty inside, with a strange hunger for more, just to fill up the gaping EMPTYNESS. addictions are vicious cycles, really.)

    but yepp, other that that you’re really objective, that was good. and yeah, although impulsive and seemingly-on-crack, fangirl logic is really THE BEST.

    also, i see this mentality popping out in alot of my kpop friends; “i ship yaoi, and i ship it hard. but i hope my idols aren’t gay in real life and get to GET OUT, get freedom and have a family. In real life, I don’t condone homosexuality, but if my friend comes out of the closet, i won’t hate on them, but i’ll try to understand them. because of yaoi fanfics/shipping, i’ve learned that it’s not easy being homo, and it requires even more willpower turning back straight.”

    i love that mentality. instead of hating on kpop for condoning homosexuality OR being homophobic, we can learn from the things floating around in our fandoms AND from korea’s non homophobic condoning society on how to deal with homosexuality in a way that we can retain our own morals but yet be supportive to those gays going through a hard time.

    ok, michelle, i’m finally done! i’m so sorry for word vomiting my life views and even blabbing out about my bland personal life. good blog though, i’m happy that you dare to write about your views on the gheiiiiiiiness in kpop LOL and being open to change your opinions and also, hear from others.

    • I hope you realize that you’re comparing someone’s sexuality to drugs. DRUGS, for crying out loud. Drugs are harmful to your physical health as well as emotional. Drugs kill. Someone with a sexuality that isn’t ‘straight’ just has a harder time since our society is only recently letting go of its homophobic shield. They aren’t ruining their bodies, but society affects all of us, and naturally we are skeptical of what’s outside the norm. It’s really society’s fault for ingraining this idea that gay is bad.

      You should check out the Kinsey scale. Very valid stuff.

      You completely forgot one of the most prominent examples of how people find out their sexuality — when someone knows from a really young age. For some people, it just clicks. Unfortunately many get depressed about it and look to change themselves (see previous argument about society). If somehow gay therapy works (which 90% of the time doesn’t work), then they weren’t completely gay in the first place (see Kinsey scale). I like what one commenter said earlier about how sexuality is never certain, and what Michelle said: sexuality is fluid. No one had to be tied to their sexuality. That’s why so many people question it (check out the LGBT section of Yahoo Answers if you don’t believe me) — they just don’t know, and it shouldn’t be something people have to determine right away. When the one special someone appears, they’ll know. 

      Also, I like how your entire comment reflects this fallacious idea that all gay people are unhappy. Yeah lol no. Many gay people are more than happy to be who they are and are living happy lives. Many have found love with someone of their own gender and have never had qualms of changing. One of my good friends is like that and he’s completely comfortable with himself. You need to go out and actually meet some gay people.

  30. Yeah! I believe U-kiss’ Kevin is Gay cause they’re OTP Kevin & Kiseop. People say that Gay can sense people like them, and after showing them Vinseop couple picture & Videos. He/She absolutely that Kevin is a Gay & Kiseop is a bisexual and it seems that they like each other or they have something deeper :)

  31. There are many K-pop idols are gay revealed in this blog but no mention who are Korean gay actor, heard that some of these gay are model turn actors. I suspected 4 active actors are gay and they are closed friends,one claimed to have a girlfriend recently I guess is just a cover up after many people suspected his sexual orientation. They are really good looking actors.

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